It’s a Thursday afternoon and two of the most influential men in the Australian art world are sitting down for lunch at the National Gallery of Victoria’s Persimmon restaurant. I arrive ten minutes early and the head waiter asks if I would mind leaving the gunslinger seat that faces the door vacant. NGV Director Tony Ellwood arrives and takes it, while the guest gets to enjoy the impressive garden view. Joining Ellwood is Deputy Director, Andrew Clark. The pair are a unique double act. Professionally they had a massive impact on QAGOMA when they began working together in 2007, and now they’re enjoying incredible success at the NGV.

This interview reflects a handful of meetings. On the first day I arrive, there’s a pop up shop in the NGV foyer to sell works by David Shrigley. Taking centre stage in the foyer is a gold carousel that offers patrons a free ride and the opportunity to mediate.

These flourishes are classic Ellwood and Clark: though both men are keen to acknowledge the team they work with who often suggest ideas and subsequently bring them to life.

As the entrees were arriving The Fashion World of John Paul Gaultier was almost ready to be packed away. That exhibition was followed by the hugely successful Ai  Weiwei / Warhol exhibition. Currently in full swing are 200 Years of Australian Fashion and Hard Edge Abstract Sculpture 1960’s – 1970’s. Next will come major surveys of David Hockney, John Olsen and Viktor&Rolf as part of NGV Spring/Summer 2016 lineup.

Each of the men appreciates the tremendous sense of duty in taking over the leadership of an institution such as the NGV.

“We were talking about the history of the institution,” begins Ellwood, “and being conscious that we have a responsibility in regards to thinking about what we’re doing for now, but also having a sense of what that’ll achieve for the future. If you’re building collections, you want to make sure there’s a significant legacy for future generations. We have fantastic fun working with our historical collections and looking at the work that other people have done over the years. Some really good decisions were made.”

“Somebody was saying to me the other day that the Alfred Felton bequest (in 1904) was like ‘our Sydney Opera House’,” says Clark. “We’ve talked a lot about the Felton period, and about how, early on, the NGV had advisors. They were bold enough not just to think that they were the experts in everything, but they would get advice. One of the things Tony talks about is the links we build with the community and even broader links internationally – our networks now are really important. Partnerships at a local level, partnerships at a national level, partnerships at the international level are the only real way you can make a difference.”

Ellwood had been with the NGV previously (from 2000 to 2007). His tenure at QAGOMA started with the ‘big bang’ of the GoMA launch and the successful Andy Warhol retrospective. Next came blockbusters such as Picasso & His Collection and Valentino Retrospective: Past/Present/Future. There was always an eye on showcasing local artists and indigenous work, and developing a deeper commitment to servicing the community. Clark had worked at QAG, and later QAGOMA, for twenty-three years.

When the pair headed to the NGV in 2012, the art world took notice. Naturally Clark saw inspiration in ‘the opportunity to do some new things’ and points out he barely ‘had a bad day at work’ over those two decades in Queensland.The opportunity to ramp things up professionally and to work again with Ellwood wasn’t something Clark was prepared to pass up. For Ellwood the NGV provided an opportunity to revisit an old stomping ground and carry out his vision.

“I was a great advocate for what was possible in Queensland,” admits Ellwood, “but I think there was more opportunity to ultimately take risks, and be resourceful to do those, in a stable, artistic environment, in Melbourne. I think the culture was there when I was in Brisbane, and I loved that. I learnt so much from it. I was also really keen to put that into an environment that wasn’t accustomed to that, or traditionally the one I knew, in Melbourne.”

There’s no denying that the Ellwood/Clark stewardship brought a new audience into QAGOMA. Attendance records were set as art lovers flocked in by the droves.

“That was the strategy,” continues Ellwood. “In the first five years of GOMA, you got a community that’s put in one-hundred-and-ten–whatever million and no real forward program. We had to build a program. The best way to do it, we felt, was mainly through major international names that would help the community feel proud of itself. And to do it with unique shows that were co-curated between our staff and international venues.”

“There’s a bit of misunderstanding now, as if those shows were just brought in to service some sort of agenda. They weren’t. They were about developing the skills of the organisation and to instil pride in the community.”

Neither man admits to any particular moment in the QAGOMA years as feeling like a peak. Like the artists they feature, it’s always about ‘the next thing’.

“I would say that I have a sense of ‘you’re only as good as the last thing you did’,” confirms Clark. “In our profession, it’s got to be about constant improvement. There’s a satisfaction in seeing an audience grow. Though, I was just thinking before, some of the things I felt were the most enjoyable for me were things like the Matisse drawing show.

(‘Matisse: Drawing Life’ was the most comprehensive exhibition of Henri Matisse’s prints and drawings ever mounted. Presented in partnership with the Bibliothèque nationale de France, the exhibition included more than 300 drawings, prints and illustrated books).

“It was exceptional new scholarship. It was a significant international show that we worked with our local curators and external curators on. It had the interactive drawing room. And it produced this amazing publication that is such a legacy project. And also 21st Century: Art In The First Decade, which was a show we did that looked at the first ten years of the new century.”

(The event occupied the entire Gallery of Modern Art and focused exclusively on works created between 2000 and 2010, featuring more than 200 works by 140 artists and collaborative groups from more than 40 countries).

Ellwood saw the show as, “pretty bold… here we were, Queensland staking a claim!”

“It got enormous critical discussion going, at its peak it was pulling 16,000 visitors in a single day,” confirms Clark.  “We talk about audience in terms of not ‘hierarchal’, but in a more lineal way. You can see these different segments, but everyone was engaged. We were reaching out to new audiences through the art we were displaying, whether it was from the Middle East, Africa, or elsewhere. We were seeing new migrants to Australia from those countries on display visiting GOMA. It was pretty satisfying.

“Tony also had the idea of doing Contemporary Australia Series with “Optimism’ as a theme. It saw the gallery doing a national survey, but making sure Queensland was very much a part of that message. Contemporary Australia: Women was the same idea.

“We had them planned so we could do an ongoing series that would be around big themes, unexpected themes, but always without it being too overt in making sure Queensland artists were given good commissions and good profile amongst their peers. We wanted to put Queensland artists in a dialog with their national and international peers. I think we did a lot. We acquired a lot of Queensland contemporary art, too.”

Embracing the Victorian art community was something Ellwood and Clark activated immediately on arrival. The Melbourne Now exhibition featured 175 individual and group presentations. As it said on the tin, the concept was designed to “celebrate the latest art, architecture, design, performance and cultural practice to reflect the complex creative landscape of Melbourne.”

“It wasn’t about ‘us’,” continues Ellwood. “There was a perception that contemporary art had not been well served in recent times. That the NGV had kind of played to the historic strength of the collection and it was at the expense of what I think is the largest contemporary art community in the country… here in Melbourne.”

“It was like a natural way of saying ‘we want to make sure local artists felt engaged, felt respected, and they were valued’. We wanted to do it in the most demonstrative way possible. Andrew kept saying if we’re going to continue on a contemporary art agenda, we have to make sure local artists are the first ones that we commit to, and make them feel respected.”

The show was a runaway hit and it continued to push boundaries on what an audience could expect.

“It was a  new direction for us to include design, which is such a strength in Melbourne,” continues Clark. “This is a major part of our vision for this institution. We’ve been collecting contemporary design. We’ve seen a lot of merging of practice, we’ve seen well established, international models like MoMA in New York flourish with art and design. At the Art Institute of Chicago they have strong design departments.  Now Melbourne has an opportunity to show its distinct strengths via its contemporary art practice and its design practice”.

“At the end of the day it was very satisfying, that 750,000 visitors came to Melbourne Now. We were doing something that was important creatively and intellectually and strategically for the organisation, but we also had a massive connection with the local audience. It’s what they wanted to see,” confirms Ellwood.

That momentum of getting people into the gallery was kept up with the likes of the, aforementioned, The Fashion World Of John Paul Gaultier.

The John Paul Gaultier retrospective was spotted by members of the NGV team. The crew weren’t going to miss the opportunity to present the show in Australia.

“We saw it once and we booked it,” explains Ellwood, “We’d heard of it and read about it, and actually had another show fall over. We had a show in the fashion area that we were going to go ahead with. We wanted to make a big statement here about fashion because there’s such a strong following for fashion in Melbourne. It was part of the whole designer agenda we wanted to go on.

“When the show that we booked didn’t proceed, we thought ‘is there another fashion show out there’?  It was one of our colleagues that said ‘what about the John Paul Gaultier one?’ We were able to secure that, and we were able to value add on that too. We tailored it to our spaces. We’ took other venue’s themes and worked with their curators, and our curators, to develop and expand where we could. And we added an Australian component.”

That particular show sent a clarion call around the country that a new benchmark had been set for displaying ‘fashion’ in a gallery space. With 3D imaging, mannequins, with eyes that seemed to follow you round the room, and a cutting edge visual presentation, The Fashion World Of John Paul Gaultier made it’s competitors appear as the equivalent of ‘flat – lay in a print magazine’.

“That’s an interesting point about display,” concurs Clark. “We were saying that the public expectation, the display and interpretation, and programming and overall immersive experience, as well as the art, is very important to the audience. The days of just saying ‘there’s the object, that’s it, there’s the label with three lines’ … that’s not enough. The (public) are wanting to bind to experience. They want all the things they had before, they want to know about the art and stories, they want the intellectual rigour, they want the research, they want the object.

“But, they also want all this other stuff. They can go and have that somewhere else if you won’t give it, and you’re competing with other people. You can hear it anecdotally, where people are talking about what was in the show, but they’re also talking about the experience they had on the day of going there.”

With regards to ideas, Elwood and Clark are open to gathering them from anywhere. Staff are encouraged to offer their two cents and the chiefs are prepared to listen.

“We’re very informal,” explains Tony. “It’s a very creative environment and a good idea can come from anywhere, at any time, and people start to really thrive in that culture.”

“I think that’s really key,” continues Clark. “Obviously you have to have structure and process and good governance and all those things. But you also need to have a culture where regardless of whose idea it is, if it’s the best idea, it gets up. You also have to have one where if there’s an idea going around, it can be enhanced. It could be Tony’s idea first or one of the curators, then it will go to key staff throughout the institution and get some feedback and it gets better. The whole thing shapes up to be the best idea possible, because it’s had all this input, and it’s not like it’s one person’s idea that can never be shaped or bettered. It is intellectually interrogated to make it better, for the best advantage. And that idea can come from anywhere. We’re not preventing where ideas are  coming from. I think that is very important in terms of (our) culture.

“Institutions in Australia and internationally have much more entrenched behaviour,” adds Ellwood. “As a result, especially when they’re big institutions, they then sort of close in on themselves. The silo effect takes on. You then get a department whose role it is to identify exhibitions, and a department whose role it is to market exhibitions. You never get fresh ideas or the exchange of opportunities, networks, all that kind of stuff. The biggest challenge in a place like this is to continuously break down those walls and have a much more linear structure across the place.”

The Up Late program in Brisbane was a game changer for QAGOMA. A similar event, Friday Nights at NGV, has taken Melbourne by storm.

“We’d always had Wednesday night programming at QAGOMA,” recalls Clark. “If we ever did late-night anything, it was a Wednesday night. The thinking was, you didn’t have to compete with anyone else on a Friday.

“We took the approach that we should be competing with everyone else. We’re as worthy and as relevant. And we know we’re going to expand and potentially develop the market by being seen as a key choice in that suite of entertainment options. Rather than politely positioning ourselves away from everything, (on) the quiet night of the week when you go to the gallery, we’re going to be right in there with all the key things to choose from. It’s a different confidence level. It’s a message you send to the community that we feel we’re as legitimate as anything else.”

“An institution this large and this entrenched has transformed itself within a three-year period,” says Clark as he gets up from the table. “We’re crediting a whole ton of people for that. It’s been such a dramatic shift. As an example, summer was our quietest period and everyone knew you don’t worry too much about summer. That’s not the case now – there’s been a change, a dramatic change.

Elwood admits that 2017 and 2018 are reasonably mapped out for the NGV, but there’s some flexibility. Ask either of the men what they do in their spare time and they’ll both say ‘we come to the gallery.’ For the pair it’s a unique opportunity to leave an imprint on a generation of gallery goers and to build a legacy. They’re not taking it lightly.

On the way out Ellwood stops and picks up a fallen sign and takes thirty-seconds to set it back in place and adjust it. The gesture speaks volumes.

ENDS

Andy Warhol | Ai Weiwei Opening Hours:

Until 15 April: 10am – 5pm.

Saturday 16 April – Thursday 21 April: 10am – 9pm.

Friday 22 April: 10am – 5pm, 6pm – 10pm Friday Nights at NGV featuring Regurgitator (pre-sale sold out; limited tickets available on the door).

Saturday 23 April: 10am – 5pm, 6pm – 10pm (Robert Forster performance), 24 hour opening event from 10pm Saturday to 10pm Sunday 24 April.

Monday 25 April: 1pm – 5pm.

Exhibition tickets on sale now from ngv.vic.gov.au

Adult $26 / Concession $22.50 / Child $10 / Family (2 adults, 3 children) $65 / Season Pass $65

Robert Forster performance and exhibition entry, tickets on sale now from ngv.vic.gov.au

Adult $30 / Member $24 / Child $12